He had been at most 21 and you will maybe younger than simply when their daughter Joanna was born. She may very well was basically the latest eldest of all children he fathered from the their certain mistresses.
John was born in December 1167
1187 Summer - John during the France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 29 - Henry yields to England, maybe with John when you look at the tow 1188 June - Henry delivers John back once again to , crosses of 1189 Summer twelve - John from the Le Mans whenever disarmed of the Henry's buy, right after which John escaped or is actually provided out to have cover 1189 July 6 - Henry I dies during the France 1189 Aug. 12 - Richard brings John back once again to England having your 1189 Aug. 31 - John married in order to Isabelle regarding Gloucester during the Marlebridge 1189 Sep. 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard sends John on Wales to help you subdue new rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can and you can forced toward oath never to lay feet into the England for three years 1190 Summer - Richard goes on crusade [John vacations his oath] In regards to our aim, it’s thought that the first several months, together with very probably returning to Joanna to possess been devised, 's the 1187-9 several months. 1187 - John uses nearly the entire year within the France 1188 - John have gone back to The united kingdomt from inside the January, but because of the summer is distributed returning to France, in which the guy appears to have stayed 1189 - John seems to be within the France January - August, coming back so you can England in the August in preparation for their wedding for the 29 Aug. If the John generated no more unrecorded productivity to help you England, it appears that the guy spent regarding the 80% regarding their go out out-of January 1187 until their marriage, in France . He was will ultimately because of the Condition out-of Mortain, during the (just before Richard's coronation).
These information, because of the several months plus the simple fact that Joanna was put to help you England away from France into the 1203 to possess their own wedding so you can Llywelyn, gives credence into indisputable fact that Joanna along with her mother was out-of French/Norman origin.
Provided along with John's better-understood philandering during this time, around appears to be of a lot people to your character of mommy of Joanna!
My personal earlier in the day post offered all the details you to definitely Paget showed that it is actually Clemence de- Dauntsey, exactly who hitched Nicholas de Verdun. We thought that this is the Nicholas and you may Clementia in order to exactly who Henry 111 provided the brand new custody out-of Susanna (due to the fact an effective hostage) from inside the 1228. Shortly after another much time search but not, I can come across no trace from a good Clemence de- Dauntsey Ermenice kadД±n in the newest information. I did so find not, the opinion of just one genealogist whom certainly stated it…’ In my opinion we (the brand new genealogists) have established that there is actually zero particularly individual due to the fact Clemence de Dauntsey. You to definitely identification of spouse of Nicholas de Verdun are an effective blunder from the Paget!’
I’m prepared to accept that completion, since further studies of your own details of the 2nd Clemence proved a lot more fruitful.
Normandy
Clemence le Boteler was born throughout the 1175 inside the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Their unique dad try Philip le Boteler (produced circa 1150).
Clemence le Boteler partnered Nicholas de Verdun in the 1202 (their 2nd wife once their relationship so you can Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, it marriage isn’t shown) from the Alton, Staffordshire plus they got one child, Rohese de- Verdun who had been created in the 1203 otherwise 1205 (died. Feb 1247).
When the, in fact, Joanna is actually the consequence of good liaison anywhere between John and Clemence le Boteler (that would have been old doing 14-15 at that time), it can was in fact quite difficult on the Le Boteler family relations to find the right spouse to possess Clemence. In reality specific ten years citation in advance of a good ily?) with a trusting English nobleman and you may assets manager, Nicholas de- Verdun. Making aside for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had dropped in love with the new 27 year old Clemence and planned to marry their own, it could was in fact very important to John to add Clemence which have particular possessions of her very own making sure that she turned an even more glamorous prize for her future husband.